139 - How library workers can provide
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Jay: [0:00] I love this like double wool, like teacup. Like doesn't hurt my hands because it's got like a gap. Justin: [0:06] You've air gapped your tea. Jay: [0:07] Yeah. Justin: [0:08] All right. So this is our episode before the election. I'm feeling pretty good. Jay: [0:14] We're going to be huge libs and be like, oh, no, he won. What are we going to do? Justin: [0:20] No, no, no. The election hasn't happened yet. So I'm looking at the polling out of Idaho. It looks like it's going to go blue. Sorry we don't mean to. Jay: [0:30] Make fun of people only a little bit. Justin: [0:33] I think that's kind of been the consensus of like the the most of the podcasts i listen to is they're like i gaslit myself into thinking she could win and like the week before and before that i thought no way she'll win then the last week thought she'll win and then they're like why did i do that to myself. Jay: [0:50] Yeah i i like went to bed after they called north carolina and like i was like all right i think i know where this is going and i woke up unsurprised. Sadie: [1:00] Yeah wife woke me up at like 3 a.m freaking the fuck out and i was like did they call it and they were like not yet and then i rolled over and was on my phone for the next two hours being like yep not surprised with What it was like when I went to sleep, but being on the West coast is like that. Yeah. Justin: [1:20] You're up later. Jay: [1:21] Yeah. It was like the county by county data. Yeah. Justin: [1:25] But yeah, I mean, there hasn't been a whole lot of news. I feel like on, I mean, Emily Javinsky wrote a piece that I think was not helpful in any way. Like she's, she's beating the drum. She's like, you know, academic libraries are going to be targeted. Libraries are going to be targeted. It's like, yeah, I know. But I think it was in like a non-library publication. so it was like trying to get. Jay: [1:45] I think it was an inside higher. Justin: [1:47] Ed yeah so I think it was an inside higher ed or something I don't think it was just like the ALA's blog. Jay: [1:53] Yeah and you have to remind faculty to care about us because half the time they're like oh you mean we can either give you a salary or keep the journal that only I care about well I know what decision I'm going to make, I'm so glad I'm not in higher ed anymore it's. Sadie: [2:08] Not great I just wait until the bullshit hits the fan in public libraries Jay just wait. Jay: [2:12] But it already has. Sadie: [2:13] It's been hitting the fan for a while, actually. Jay: [2:15] Yeah, I'm just going to be a little latte-sipping liberal here in Massachusetts, I guess. Justin: [2:20] Are you going to be every person who I meet in Boston who I tell them I'm from Texas and they're like, oh, Texas. Jay: [2:30] Every time my boyfriend lives in Texas, they're like, ugh. I'm like, y'all, I know. I've been there. Sadie: [2:39] I am aware. Jay: [2:40] I love to say that the very first time I visited you in Texas, I got off the plane in Dallas, right? Because that's where my labor was. And like literally I step off of the plane and I get into the airport. And immediately a dude walks out of the men's restroom wearing like a transphobic t-shirt. And I was like, cool. But I literally had no other issues. Justin: [3:01] Yeah. Jay: [3:02] I just can't go to Odessa. That's the thing. I just can't go there. Justin: [3:05] Yeah. Whereas, you know, you can hang out with me in the valley and you go see the guys wearing the pink pumps dancing. Jay: [3:12] Yeah, exactly. Justin: [3:13] Getting a little fruity with it. Jay: [3:14] Yeah, they get a little fruity with it down there. It's fun. Shit's been bad, people. Like, this doesn't change much. It's like, shit's, I don't want to be like, oh, everything's fine. It's not fine. But it's been bad. So, you know, we have to not get too. It hasn't been fine. Seriously, we've been, we've been set on this, on this very program. We've been saying the exact shit that we are going to tell you tonight for like three years now. Sadie: [3:44] I feel like every time there's like a democratic president, all of the, all of the liberals like gaslight themselves into believing that like no more work needs to be done now. Justin: [3:54] They went to brunch. They said they were going to go to brunch and they went to brunch. Jay: [3:57] But then like the worst leftists, you know, are like, oh, well, then I hope Trump wins so that people start organizing again. I'm like, that's not what I wanted to either. Yeah. Sadie: [4:07] Fuck. Justin: [4:08] But it has been interesting, the sort of lack of resistance among liberals. At least online, you know, I think during the inauguration, there's probably going to be protests and stuff. People are going to like. Jay: [4:19] God, a liberal J6 is going to be so fucking funny. Justin: [4:24] I don't think that's going to happen, but I think. Jay: [4:26] Oh, obviously not. But I've already seen people be like, oh, he faked the election. I'm like, y'all. Justin: [4:31] I did like what Devin was saying, which is like, if you have liberals in your life, it is your duty to say, hey, doesn't something seem strange about the results? Jay: [4:42] It is is quite funny. Sadie: [4:44] When i saw people immediately. Jay: [4:46] Being like oh it was rush again all over again it was like oh not even. Justin: [4:51] It was like 2005 all over again it was like we have to get more racist. Jay: [4:56] That but also people being like oh he cheated we have to do recounts we need to wait longer before we call yada yada i'm like y'all you can't make fun of republicans we're doing this and then do it. Sadie: [5:08] Well and like and the thing that gets me about that is it's so like myopic because like they've been they've been spending the past four years making sure we don't have another 2020 election result right like gerrymandering making sure nobody does a vote by mail like they've been spending the past four years doing that shit to get this result in otherwise completely legitimate ways so just jumping straight into the conspiracy thinking is just when I first saw people I was like oh for the love of God we're not doing this are we okay we are hoo boy actually crazies. Jay: [5:43] Are way better organizers a better solidarity than we are a lot of the time. Justin: [5:49] They're also just as infighty and it's. Jay: [5:52] Just they. Sadie: [5:53] Don't they don't. Justin: [5:54] Infight they don't infight over the same types of things so it allows them to steal cohere politically yeah. Sadie: [6:01] But they. Justin: [6:02] Will rat fuck individuals but the program kind of keeps going on in this populist way. I've seen some really good stuff I've seen some really bad takes. The one thing I'm surprised I haven't seen anybody mentioned i mean literally i haven't read this anywhere and it just it took like weeks to occur to me vote out vote turnout was so much higher in 2020 because everyone was allowed to vote by mail because a ton of states said you can vote by mail and voting was easier the last election and like that's a good reason why turnout's probably down and a lot more people are disabled and dead we. Sadie: [6:36] Should have been spending the last four years trying to get vote by mail in so many more states, particularly, you know, the ones that flipped blue last time, like Georgia and Arizona. Maybe if that had happened, we would have had. Yeah. Justin: [6:51] It was just so strange, though, that it took so long. Yeah, it's just strange that it took so long for me to realize, like, no one has written anything about how much vote by mail was expanded in 2020. And like, it hasn't come up at all. Jay: [7:03] Well, because they had to, like, totally get rid of all of the, like, they had to, like, completely abandoned covid stuff as part of the platform because biden whiffed it so bad because if they focus on the fact that like it was under trump that the covid stuff was initially put under like they can't take any credit for that initial bit and then they got rid of everything like almost immediately like the vote by mail thing was a covid thing you know. Justin: [7:30] Yeah it's just strange to me that like even the leftists i follow because i'm not reading like liberal rags i'm still hoping someone on blue sky figures out a way to block links from like the new york times just like, and so i don't have to see people reposting it's like stop posting your garbage here just because you have a weird fetish for being humiliated that's. Sadie: [7:50] One way to go about it i guess. Justin: [7:52] Yeah speaking of blue sky actually there's i just kind of found out this thing where there are other people doing moderation lists. So when you report, so people label accounts, they can't ban them themselves because they're not like part of the blue sky team, but you can get on a labeling list. And then when you report a post or an account, you can report it to the person who maintains that list. So there's like a transphobia list. So walk the person, but it will label them transphobic. So then you'll see that they've like, you know, what kind of transphobia they're peddling and stuff like that. And so even if the blue sky moderators will be like, well, we can't kick them for saying something like that. Cause it's like an edge case. This moderator will still at least tat like label them. So it's kind of like Shinigami eyes. Jay: [8:35] I still like to caution people to be careful with that kind of stuff because like people do weaponize that shit against people. So, you know, take it with a grain of salt. Justin: [8:44] But yeah, but I mean, given the current influx of chuds, it's kind of like, it's helpful because there's just so many of them trying to get established. There's a bunch of people who follow me who I think are just liberals, but because they're liberals, it just sounds like stuff that a right winger pretending to be a liberal would say to me because like, they're like dog mom resistor. And I'm like, I don't know. Is this like a right wing person pretending to be a liberal or is this just how liberal it is? no. Jay: [9:12] It's just like a 41 year old white lady librarian that's it. Justin: [9:15] Is it is you know what if you're listening thank you for coming stop. Jay: [9:21] Reading harry potter there are other books for adults. Justin: [9:24] Read another book but i hope i'm hoping i'm radicalizing some of the grandmas who are following me for some reason it's. Sadie: [9:31] The best it's the best you can hope for. Justin: [9:33] Yeah i just want that photo of the the hamas guy and then the old lady in the recliner with an ak-47 in her lap and it's like library punk the people following library punk it's. Jay: [9:44] Not wrong although most of our followers are like library school students like i think right that's where like our audience is. Justin: [9:50] On blue sky right now yeah but it's a lot more like younger librarians yeah in general people who listen to podcasts but like on on blue sky because we're on the starter pack that's really popular yeah we're getting a lot of like retired librarians older people so welcome but you You got to post a little bit so I can get a feel for you before I'm going to follow you back, making sure you're not, you know, not being weird. Jay: [10:13] You know, free Palestine, the IRA did nothing wrong, et cetera, et cetera. Justin: [10:17] Yeah. Merry Christmas to my friends in Hezbollah, Hamas and the IRA. Jay: [10:22] Yeah, exactly. That's our politics. Justin: [10:26] Okay. Well, I guess we can officially get started. Sadie: [10:58] I'm Sadie. I work IT at a public library, and my pronouns are they, them. Jay: [11:02] I'm Jay. I'm a cataloging librarian, and my pronouns are he, him. Justin: [11:06] Behold the atheist's nightmare. Jay: [11:08] What's that from? Justin: [11:10] I think Kent Hovind. Is that his name, or is that the other guy? He's just some old creationist grifter. He's still around. Is it Kent Hovind, or is that the Australian guy? Well, they're both Australian. There's a lot of Australian creationists who come to America to do their grifts. But yeah, he's holding up a banana. No, Ray Comfort. That's who it is. Kent Hovind's the other guy. Jay: [11:28] Rick Conley sounds like a porn name. Justin: [11:30] It does. You should remake Boogie Nights. Jay: [11:32] Boogie Nights is so good. If there's a way I could tie that into this fucking podcast, I would make watch of. Justin: [11:37] I've seen it. Jay: [11:38] I know you have. Sadie, have you seen Boogie Nights? Sadie: [11:40] I don't think I have, actually. Jay: [11:42] It's real good. I should find a way to work it in. Sadie: [11:46] Discord. Boogie Night? Jay: [11:47] Yeah, it's about the 70s porn industry and the 70s turning into the 80s. But it's about utopia and disillusionment. And it's also the only good thing Marky Mark's ever done. Sadie: [11:59] Okay, that's why I've heard of it. Marky Mark. Jay: [12:01] Yeah, Phil Cy Hoffman's in it. Yeah, it's real good. Justin: [12:04] Okay, so I'm trying to do more segments and stuff like that. So I'm going to try some... I guess this is news. Leaked documents show what phone's secretive tech gray key can unlock. So this is from 404 Media. I have a subscription if you ever need to get access to it, but I highly recommend you support them because they do extremely good research and I want this publication to stick around. So they have like a podcast, they have stuff. This is not a brand deal. I just like the product. And they also write really interesting stuff about like how many paywalls do you put up? How many barriers do you put up in order to like keep your organization running? So like, when do we decide to put something behind a pain wall? Like a pain wall. Justin: [12:51] When they're talking like, pain points or like frustration points. They're like some, you just need to create an account to read and then some you have to pay. And they're like these different layers of things, like create the incentive to people, for people to value what you put out. Interesting stuff probably relates to podcast, but you know, we don't have a paywall here. So, so the great key is a phone unlocking and forensics tool used by law enforcement. I believe it first became known in like 2018 and it was kind of a big deal where people found out, I think this was after the san bernardino shooting was when it was first reported or maybe it was a similar de-encryption thing but this is the stuff that can just straight up crack iphones and androids and so there was a leak to show what phones gray key can unlock and what operating systems it can unlock so it's only able to retrieve partial data from all modern iphones so again it has to be like a newer phone as well that run ios 18 or 18.0.1 this is the first time that there's been a leak of which phones gray key is able to or unable to access it's also a breakdown of gray keys capabilities against android devices which varies widely because android is obviously like not just one thing there's lots of different android operating systems still. Jay: [14:10] Mostly google though. Justin: [14:12] But the thing is, I think the main takeaway here is like the more new and the more different it is, the longer it takes GrayKey to catch up. But there was a quote from a guy who worked at Apple to create the thing where if you haven't unlocked your phone, basically the USB port will only charge. It will not give data. That guy works for GrayKey now. So they're going to hire the people who build the security stuff from Apple to then break the stuff they build. So they will catch up. Jay: [14:41] I mean, this is so I think it was Crime Think who put this out. I need to look it up. But there's like this great little OPSEC blog post that used the film Mad Max Fury Road to talk about concepts in OPSEC. And one of the most important things about it was like, it is never about fully getting away from adversaries. You will never beat them forever. It's always just about being one step ahead of them and then moving on because they will figure it out. You just have to slow them down. Like in Mad Max Fury Road. Justin: [15:17] Yeah, a movie I never remember how it ends. I remember like the first half of that movie and then the rest, nothing, cannot remember how it ends ever. I've seen it three times. Jay: [15:27] Oh, I've seen it so many times. Justin: [15:28] It's a good movie. I don't know why I can't remember the end. Anyway, so Great Key has much less capability with iPhones running beta builds. So go enable your beta builds right now, I guess. Saying none for the various betas of 18.1 across all modern iPhone iterations. For Google's Pixel range, Great Key is able only to extract partial data on the most recent Pixel devices, including Pixel 9 released in August. According to the document, this is specifically when the phone is in after-first-unlocked state, which is when somebody has unlocked the device at least once since it was powered on. So probably if your phone is seized, then it's already in that state. So I think before-first-unlocked, It can't get any data. Jay: [16:10] So have your phone off. And even if they turn it on, don't unlock it. Gotcha. Sadie: [16:16] And use a passcode or a pattern or literally anything other than biometrics to unlock your phone. Jay: [16:23] At least while you're at protests and stuff. Sadie: [16:25] At least while you're at protests. And make sure you like, I know a lot of phones have that. If a certain other device is near, it won't, you won't need to unlock it. Like I had that with like an Apple watch or something. Yeah. So take that shit off. Take that shit off or turn that shit off. Yeah. Justin: [16:42] Probably take it off. I bet Apple watches are easy to crack. Sadie: [16:45] Yeah. Jay: [16:45] Yeah. Like, I'm not one of those people that's like, get a burner phone. Because as Alice McCrena told, at least me, I don't know if she told us on this podcast before. But, like, I've seen her do this spiel before. Like, getting a burner phone just like, oh, I'm going to go to a protest. I'm going to have a burner phone. Like, there's, oh, you suddenly turned your phone off at the same exact time as this protest. And then you turned it back on once you got home. They're still going to know where you were. It's about changing a pattern of behavior consistently. That is what is most important. Justin: [17:14] Turn your phone off all the time. Just at random times. Just turn it on and off all day. Jay: [17:21] Use Tor browser randomly. Yeah, it's like don't use Tor just to do illegal shit kind of thing. Use Tor all the time if you can. Justin: [17:31] Yeah, there's certain browsers you can turn it on to. If there is an Onion version of a site, it will always open the Onion version. So I think Brave does that. So you can have it. Jay: [17:40] Don't use Tor through anything but the Tor browser. Justin: [17:43] Okay. Well, it'll open the Tor browser. Jay: [17:46] But like the point of like, okay, yeah. Because like the point of the Tor browser is that it's also like the same exact size, the same exact spot on your desktop, like the same exact settings and everything. So it helps reduce browser fingerprinting as well. Justin: [18:01] Yeah. I think when you, because I turned this off because it was like annoying because it'll do it for like all the news websites. Like New York Times will bring up its Onion site and it's like, I don't really need that. But you could turn that on if you are, you know, maybe doing some of this stuff we'll talk about, like ordering controlled substances on the Internet that you might need. Jay: [18:20] So how do you do fellow trans masks? Justin: [18:23] Yeah. So historically, they have eventually caught up and managed to get partial information from the phones. And it was also iOS 18 that caused all those phones to reset, which pissed off a lot of cops. And they started having conspiracy brain about it, where they thought the phones were sending signals in between each other to reboot each other. And it was shit that the iPhone can't do. It was literally just because the code was in there, it was going to always reboot at some point when they turned it back on. Even if it was in... The moment they turn it on, it'll be, oh, I need to activate this code. And then it reboots the phone. So anyway, keep your iOS up to date. I know my phone is constantly not updating properly. So go in there manually once in a while. Even if you have auto updates on, just make sure it's finishing the updates. Jay: [19:14] Yeah, because sometimes it'll like download it, but it won't install it because you haven't been like plugged into power or something. Sometimes it's just fussy. Justin: [19:21] So, yeah, sometimes it's like, well, is it OK if I update? And I'm like, auto update is on. It's like, but is it OK? Jay: [19:28] Like it's. Sadie: [19:29] On for a reason we have 23 apps waiting to update and i'm like what the fuck does auto update do then. Jay: [19:35] Anyway this is also a chance for me to be high and mighty about everyone who's like android is so much better i'm like don't want don't have brand loyalty to android is google most of the time it's not like the thing it once was yeah people think that they know all the shit because they read a tech blog in like 2012. Sadie: [19:56] Yeah, not the same. Jay: [19:58] Yeah, no, shit's different. It's like people who like go like ride or die for like Mozilla Firefox. I'm like, no, they're like all the same now. Sadie: [20:07] Yeah. Jay: [20:08] Some are more secure. Some are more private. Just, you know, it's about patterns of behavior. That's what's most important. Justin: [20:15] I think that was all the news. Jay, you have a thing. Well, could I explain? the topic of the episode first. Jay: [20:24] Before you go into that why i was gonna part my thing was part of the episode right. Justin: [20:29] But we haven't said what we're doing. Jay: [20:31] Right you're the one who launched into this not me well. Justin: [20:35] Okay so the the what we're doing is we got a question from someone who works in a public library asking what is it i can do to support people after this election during a trump presidency and so we gave them a bunch of answers this is in the horror vanguard discord and then we thought okay well let's just compile those answers here and add some stuff and that's what we're going to talk about for the main segment of the show and then jay has something from black rose. Jay: [21:01] Yeah so i saw this come up because like i know that leave me alone text scammy people they've been getting bold lately has anybody else been getting the like group facetime calls that are from scammers those shit no only you nope yeah i guess it's only me you're. Justin: [21:20] Special jay you get a shit ton of them. Jay: [21:22] I do it's really annoying anyway so black rose has been putting out these like blog posts about like anarchists in the labor sector and they've been interviewing various like people doing labor organizing in various fields and one of the most recent one was from a public library worker in north carolina where like i don't know if folks know this or not But like you cannot collectively bargain in North Carolina, at least not if you're a public sector employee. Jay: [21:55] And so like a lot of the people that a lot of the stuff that people are afraid about, like unions and stuff under a Trump presidency going forward, it's like our comrades in the South and in a lot of this country actually like have already been dealing with this since the beginning. Right. And so I thought it might like help people just to read like what, like, even if you're not an anarchist, just like what as like librarians who are leftists. Jay: [22:26] Whatever flavor of leftist you are, like going like what does it look like to do labor organizing in a library when draconian labor laws exist? Especially like i'm in massachusetts i technically legally can't strike because i'm a public servant right the only illegal strike is a failed strike but still like that's in my collective bargaining agreement right you know whatever don't listen to that shit but i mean listen to that shit but don't listen to that shit so like i don't know i the link will be in the notes but i think an important thing to take from it is that like even if you can't quote unquote collectively bargain you can still unionize. And there are other ways that you can put pressure on administration, especially as public librarians, learning who has what power over your job in a city or state government, and knowing how to actually put pressure on those people, whether your union is independent or part of a larger union, like if you're organizing with other public sector employees, for example, what does it actually look like to do labor organizing when it is way more hostile than it is here? And like Massachusetts, for example, where I'm very cushy and have a great little union job now, right? So I just thought it might be nice. It also like is a great example of like coalition building. Jay: [23:51] Like I feel like this is like as librarians and like Emily Drabinsky, this was like one of her whole things as being ALA president was about librarians doing labor organizing because like labor organizing truly is one of those areas that is like coalition building. Like it is kind of like a big tent kind of thing. You might have different ideologies and different politics, but you are building solidarity with your co-workers and with your community around specific issues. And through that organizing, you can also model different methods than electoral politics. We'll put it that way. but yeah I just thought it might be nice for people to read that interview if people are freaking out a bit because like the stuff that we're kind of afraid of like our comrades in the south have been dealing with this shit like forever, like this ain't new people already can't like do the kind of labor organizing they can do it out of the country and they're still successful like there's some really successful like labor organizing happening in North Carolina for example but in everywhere that's all I really have to say about that. Justin: [25:00] This is why I know there's a lot of critiques of the IWW and me and Jay have talked about this. But the reason I still believe in the IWW as a concept is one thing they've been very good at in the past couple of decades is unionizing in places where other unions won't bother to go because they've given up on trying to. Like Starbucks, a lot of those early Starbucks unions were some wobbly just got like a fucking bug up their ass and was like, let's just salt this place. Why the fuck not? So it's a great organization that creates radical unionists. So there are a lot of people in unions like Jay's who I'm sure don't understand the power and political importance of their union. But everyone who joins the IWW does. And they love to go around. There was a story. Jay: [25:44] They offer great labor training, like organizing training. Justin: [25:48] IWW does. And they also give people information to understand. The IWW started when labor unions were illegal. They've never given up that outlook of the wildcat strike, like if your union is not going to be on your terms, dual card in the IWW, organize with us we'll do a wildcat strike that happened in West Virginia with teachers who were again legally not allowed to strike they went on a wildcat strike their union couldn't authorize it but they organized themselves and did it I'm sure there were some wobblies and they're going yeah let's do this. Jay: [26:21] Is why rank and file shit is so important. Justin: [26:23] And the other thing, the reason I was thinking about it Because Jay mentioned, you know, you can't strike is the IWW's conceptualization of sabotage, which is not just like destruction of things, but like work to rule. Jay: [26:40] Sick outs, strategic sick outs. Yeah. Justin: [26:43] Waste the employer's money. If you work in, say, a restaurant, pile everyone's plates high. You know, you're doing your job. You're doing great. The people you're serving love you and you are costing a shit ton of money. If you work in public transit, a fare strike, no longer collecting fares from people, people who've done fare strikes when everything they ask for, they didn't take a day off work, they didn't go on strike. They just said, hey, the fare system's not working today. We've turned it off. Three days of free rides around the whole city. They got everything they wanted. Right. So, Sabotage has, and this is like sort of the same thing where, I can't remember what her name was, but there was a wobbly who got involved with environmental stuff. It was part of getting people away from spiking trees because those hurt the workers, because it would injure the workers who were sawing into a tree that was spiked, and instead getting them on your side. Because if you do something that you need to get them to actually realize they need to do something. So sabotage at through that conceptualization is very very powerful and it can be stuff like work to rule waste money waste time so yeah. Sadie: [27:51] And i just want to say don't assume that because you're part of a union that your fellow union members know what any of that means i brought up work to rule in a union meeting once i had three or four people including those who were on the executive board go what what do you mean by that so like don't there's still a level of education that needs to happen, even if you are unionized for your fellow union members. So don't forget about that either. Jay: [28:18] Labor Notes has some, yeah, like IWW has resources, but Labor Notes also has eBooks as well as like workshops that do like the secrets of a successful union organizer and like what you do when your union breaks your heart, like that kind of stuff, like genuinely very helpful information for like organizing your workplace and stuff. Justin: [28:38] Yeah. But I was also saying that's why the IWW is good, because you know that there's someone reliably radical and educated, because a lot of stuff the IWW does is they advise other unions. And so they don't get a lot of the credit. And people are like, well, the IWW only has like 3000 members or whatever. Yeah because they they have just one guy who lives in like bumfuck nowhere who goes and says hey you guys should do a wildcast strike hey you guys need to start building up a strike fund hey you should just pass around an excel spreadsheet and like you know and then they organize under you know the starbucks union right it's not the iww starbucks union it's just so they seed unions all over the place and i think that's why people don't take it seriously but that's for me it's why I still believe in it. But again, I don't evangelize it in any way. I don't feel like you have to join. But I feel like if you want a radical education, you should definitely learn about what the IWW is and what it stands for, because they're playing by a different rulebook. And it's the rulebook that I think we're going to suggest today, which is building structures outside of what you already have. Didn't mean to go on a rant, but. So what can libraries actually do within their limitations? So that was the question that we got. And I think some of the responses we gave was, well, I think the takeaway was you're going to be limited in what the library can directly provide because the library in itself is not a radical organization. Justin: [30:00] It's even if you were the director of the library and had free reign to run any programs you wanted, you could do more definitely. But you're still going to ultimately be limited by the structure of your city employee or county employee. And you've got certain limitations. So there's certain things you can do to encourage people to take advantage of the library. But ultimately, you need to be looking outside of the library into your community where you're going to have more freedom to organize and help more directly. Jay: [30:30] Like use your skills as a librarian elsewhere. Justin: [30:35] Yeah, like volunteering at an info shop, you know, like a radical info shop. So one of the first things I recommended was providing information because that's what a library is good at. No one's really going to give you trouble about it. You know, you can do this kind of quietly if you're not at the top of the ranks. But, you know, there are a bunch of zines out there. You can definitely create and print out a bunch of them because, you know, you work there. You have unlimited printer privileges usually. Print out a bunch of zines and stuff and put them there and say like, hey, this is, you know, our community members made some of these. What do I do with this? What do I do with that? Get a little display stand, put it somewhere and say like community information. Jay: [31:14] I think it's zinelibraries.info or something like has good resources for zine libraries and like supplies and everything. Justin: [31:21] Yeah, I also have a link to a Radical Zine library that's hosted on GitHub. Also, the Boston Public Library has this little corner next to the cafe that's like a big bulletin board. And people can just put whatever there, I think. I don't know what the rules are for it. But creating basically a little table and a bulletin board and just calling it Community Center, that will allow people from the community to put stuff there. And then you, as a member of your community, can also print out local zines and stuff that might have information that's relevant about immigration services and groups, people who are doing mutual aid around immigration services or food or trans health care. And, you know, you can put them out there and say, oh, I guess someone dropped off a bunch of those. So it depends on how sneaky you have to be about it. Jay: [32:09] You are also a patron at your library, like outside of you being an employee. You are also a patron. Justin: [32:16] Yeah. It depends on the environment you're in. Right. I'm just saying like, if you have a hostile supervisor, you're, You know, then maybe you drop it off after work hours and say, oh, someone wants to come in. You know, whatever you got to do. Make your own risk assessment. I also think it would be good to have like zine making classes and programming so that you can invite groups in, like groups that might be able to share information or who are currently, you know, like abortion funds. I know like there are a lot of abortion funds in Texas who some of them operate outside of Texas because they can't really operate in Texas as much anymore. Justin: [32:50] But if most of their stuff is online maybe saying hey you should make some physical stuff to circulate in the community and bringing them in to you know inviting them to come to this zine workshop you're going to do and teach them and let them print out zines and then leave some at the library and then they can go out and put those in the community and you've got some there so just encouraging people to come into programming is also going to look good because it creates this sort of feedback loop of we had this great programming we had a bunch of people show up let's make more time more space for for programming what the person in the horror vanguard said discord said was you know our budget's limited and what i was saying is if you create a feedback loop like this you make an argument for more budget or a reallocation of the budget to say look this is popular people like this and then you'll be able to do more in the future so it's a long game and it could take months and years but if you get the metrics and show it off then bringing in people from the community you know just send an email just say hey i want to help you make zines i want to help your organization i want to help something why don't you come to this program or tell us a time that would work for you and then you can set the program to that time. Justin: [34:01] And do something like that creates a cycle that also goes for like providing space like say you Reaching out to a group and saying, hey, did you know the library has meeting rooms you can use if you want to meet here? And that way that you can also show like, oh, there's community engagement, there's community groups coming in, there's more booking for the meeting rooms, the study rooms, stuff like that. So that's also useful. And a lot of people don't think about it. Like, I've definitely been at like DSA meetings where they're like, where can we meet? And I'm like, have we thought about the library? And they're like, oh, yeah. So, you know, just making it obvious that there is space and resources to use to your community because, you know, people want to get involved. So we're just trying to give some ideas of like how to do that. Jay: [34:43] If your library is jonesing to be like, oh, hey, well, we have to let Nazis use the meeting rooms, then there's nothing to say that you can't use the meeting rooms. That's what they're there for. Sadie: [34:55] And a lot of libraries have the ability to offer spaces after library hours, too. So don't look at a library's hours and go, oh, well, we can't meet before six. We might not even try. like really look at the community room like policies or whatever because a lot of them you can rent it out up until like 8 or 9 p.m. Or whatever so like there's there's normally some wiggle room there. Justin: [35:20] Yeah and as an employee you can help people navigate that bureaucracy like they might go oh well your hours don't work for us let them know well let me talk to the director to see if we can change that policy because if you tell us a time Then I can go to them and say, hey, we've got this community group that wants to use it. Can we have after-hours meetings? So you might even be able to get the policy changed just by demonstrating interest. And you can do all this in sort of like a non-partisan way. Again, because that's the limits of the radicalism of the institution, sometimes you might have to be careful about how you frame these things. I have to do that all the time. I have to frame a lot of stuff where I'm like, well, we should be doing this because we should be doing this. But then I have to say well it's in the benefit of the institution for us to do this so learn how to pitch things I guess is part of it learn how to, make it sound the way because sometimes the people who are agreeing with you also agree with you but they don't have the way of framing it in such a way where they're like oh this is this will fit in the mission whereas the mission is milk toast and should be better but yeah. Jay: [36:24] Like I am a zine selector at my library now and like That means that it is totally within my ability to be like, we're going to buy these zines that are about like Palestine. And the other people who are zine selectors are also little radical weirdos that are like, oh, we should absolutely buy the zines about Palestine. And so then we have zines about Palestine that like support that where the money goes directly to like help funds for like getting people out of Gaza and stuff. Justin: [36:52] So like you. Jay: [36:54] Know you gotta just gotta do that shit because it's like oh yeah they can't censor our collection development and it's a zine the kind of people who read zines like care about palestine and shit i don't know. Justin: [37:02] Sure yeah you can also be like especially something's local be like look this is local stuff this is local community so that that has always been particularly that's the way that a queer collections have been built is like people going downtown and grabbing like all the gay magazines and stuff and being like we're building a special collection they do that every day for you know 10 20 years then they turns out they end up with like one of the best special collections of queer life in their city so like even when homophobia was like a lot higher relative it's all relative like who fucking knows what's higher or lower but they could spend public money on this stuff because they made a justification and the justification was this is our community, So knowing how to frame things and knowing how to pitch things, I think, is invaluable if you're working in a library and you want to support your community. I also mentioned immigration lawyers and law groups, but government services support, I feel, is going to be a big thing. So if you have groups that are doing mutual aid for immigration or you have law firms who you still have to pay, whatever, but they are doing this kind of stuff, invite them to come do programming. I mean, again, weigh the risk because if you have cops at your library, are your cops going to do any immigration enforcement for people who show up? Like, weigh all those risks. Jay: [38:21] Step one, get the cops out of your library. Step two. Yeah. Justin: [38:25] You will have lawyers in the room. So it's like, I don't know if the cops are going to try anything crazy. You know, definitely bring in lawyers, not just advocates. If you're going to do something that's going to bring undocumented people into your building, make sure lawyers are there. But also maybe, you know, again, with that community notice board, putting information to those groups out there in multiple languages, look up your city government's most, who has low proficiency English and what languages do they speak? So the people who can't read English, what are they speaking? Because it might be different from the most common second languages. So I was looking this up for Boston the other day depending where you are in Boston you have different, they only measure people who have low English proficiency so that's like 70% I think in some places it's as high as 20% people who cannot read or write in English and then depending on the area the most spoken language is going to be different so some places it's going to be Spanish, most places it's going to be Spanish but other places it ended up being like Chinese or Korean like. Jay: [39:27] Haitian Creole yeah. Justin: [39:30] Almost almost always like three or four so you know look if your city has demographic data on low English speakers which if you live in a big city it probably will if you're in a small city you're just going to have to guess probably, odds are it's going to be Spanish. So, you know, make sure that that's available. I would say Spanish and French are the most useful because a lot of Creoles are based on Spanish and French. If you go to school in Haiti, you will learn French in school. So even if you can't get it translated into Haitian Creole, a lot of Haitians can speak French. Not always very good. Depends on how long they lived in Haiti. So it depends, but just keep it in mind. And then And of course, like Korean, Chinese, different types of Chinese. I think a lot of people write Mandarin versus Cantonese. Jay: [40:16] Yeah. Justin: [40:16] Yeah. And in Boston, yeah. And in Boston, it was, they usually do distinguish them, but in some cases, the data they have isn't good enough. So they just have to say Chinese because they don't know, like the breakdown. Jay: [40:28] Well, and also, isn't it like if you are from Hong Kong and know Cantonese, then you probably also know Mandarin, right? Justin: [40:36] No. Jay: [40:37] No? Justin: [40:37] Mandarin's only been recent in Hong Kong. from Chinese immigrants. And Hong Kong Cantonese is different from other Cantonese. Jay: [40:44] Oh, I didn't know that. See, learn something new every day. I used to have a student worker who was from Hong Kong, and her English was better than some of my other student workers where English was an acquired language because she had already learned Mandarin and Cantonese, so learning English was easier for her than if she had only just learned English. Justin: [41:06] Yeah. Hong Kong also uses a lot more English because it was an English colony. And there are a lot of English words in Hong Kong Cantonese because it got creolized a little bit. Jay: [41:17] That makes sense. Justin: [41:18] Yeah. That's why it's different is because of all the English influence. And then guides on benefits. So one thing I've been talking about on Blue Sky is during the 2016 residency, like 2017, a lot of stuff that was government information disappeared, particularly around the Affordable Care Act. So it became a lot harder to learn about getting an Affordable Care Act plan. The websites broke. The websites took down helpful information. I was watching it happen in real time. It was very, very bad. So if those sites break down again, you might have to make external guides to show people, okay, I know the site's intentionally confusing now, so here's how you get through it. So you might have to start creating guides to get through government services like immigration, passport, making, and hopefully people will like collectivize these guides and share them among each other because that kind of stuff exists. Jay: [42:11] Do that instead of those like cringy lib syllabus lib guides that went around in 2020. Like do this instead than those. Justin: [42:19] Yeah, yeah. When the sites start changing over, I think we should look at making like a GitHub project to share just guides for navigating these websites so that we can update them as those sites change. Maybe we'll find some comrades. What I'm thinking of as a model for that, there used to be these really cheap open source classes for older people to learn computers and they were very very very basic and they were kind of like slideshows basically but they were open source and they were very good so making something like that that is just like clear step by step posted on git so we can change it i think would be a really good project and so hopefully maybe we can get some people together to to work on that or at least get a group of people who steal this idea steal this idea there's no copyright no copyright copyright is dead and we have killed it no copyright law in the universe is going to stop me so yeah go go do that or reach out i mean i would be happy to help if i have time i think especially if you have people coming to you multiple times a day asking how to use these websites it's in your best interest to just put the work in to make a better guide because and then share it that's like the open education thing is don't make everyone reinvent the wheel so let's get these guys out there that's also the good thing about libguides. Jay: [43:36] Is that people can use your guide as a template if it's in the community, whatever that's the good thing about libguides is that there's that model, so make sure if you make a libguide like this that it's searchable and findable in that so that people can just copy that data over yeah. Justin: [43:55] But that functionality is a little wonky, so we need to also push them up through social media so people can find them too steal this book, No, you're right. But we need visibility in a different way. Harden your policies. I don't remember exactly what I meant when I wrote this. Sadie: [44:14] You didn't. I did. I threw those in there right before we started recording. I mean, if you have a community room policy, if you have a collection management policy, if you have a favorable board now, don't rely on it being favorable in a year or two's time. And it's a lot harder to change policies once they're in place than it is when they need to be made up whole cloth or whatever. Boards should be updating policies as they go, but if it has been updated very recently, there's less of a reason to go back and revisit it and waste the board's time. So figure out what policies need to be hardened now and see what you can do to get those in front of a favorable board, make any necessary, if you need to make any necessary changes to put in words that you're not going to get rid of shit just for being queer, that kind of thing. Start trying to be proactive about that within the bounds of your own professional duty. So like Justin's saying, figure out how to phrase things instead of going, well, I don't want this bullshit to happen on my time. You can phrase it in a way that aligns with your mission of your organization's mission. Justin: [45:29] Yeah, like with challenge policies being like, this is to save the time of the staff because we can't have one person, even if this hasn't happened to you yet. You can point to real examples of one person putting in a thousand challenges and say, okay, our challenge form needs to be difficult. It needs to be intentionally difficult because we don't want people spamming us because it's going to waste public money, right? Just put all these bullshit terms in there that don't matter and say, well, it is a good point, actually. I mean, you don't want to waste worker time doing this bullshit. But so you're not lying. You're just saying like, look, this is the way we should do this. Jay: [46:08] Make it so that you have to have a library card to actually put in challenges. Sadie: [46:14] You have to have a library card in the area that you are placing the challenge. You have to have read the material in full before you can put in a challenge. You know, that sort of thing. Try to make it. Justin: [46:26] I feel like so much of- We must lift passages. Sadie: [46:29] Yeah. Jay: [46:30] If we say, sorry, we're not going to ban the book, you can't just challenge it again. Sadie: [46:35] Yeah. There's a certain amount of time before you have to do it again. Yeah. Well, and I just feel like so much of what's going to happen is going to come down to very local politics. So that's really like what Justin's saying, what really we should be focusing on is figure out what is going on locally and harden it to that. And also, I know several libraries in Washington are having this push of the First Amendment audits, where somebody shows up with a camera and asks employees in public places lots of questions trying to get them to trip up or tell them they need to leave or whatever, which like, yes, you should know what's legal where, but also harden your policies when it comes to public record requests, because there are a lot of these sorts of groups that are right wing that are using public, basically using public records requests to try to trip up these institutions, causing lots and lots of tied up staff time if you don't already have a decent process for this so that's another avenue that might start ramping up if it hasn't already in your area so that's what i meant by hiring your policies. Justin: [47:54] Yeah especially with like a bunch of records requests a lot of the laws have like openings for saying like this is an undue burden on staff time sort of stuff like that so you could definitely have a policy that says like if the same person is requesting the same information again and again because like records requests are good like this is all like foyer stuff is good but like there is a certain point where there was i remember there was someone like one person specifically was harassing this library through foyer requests and just kept putting more and more and more in and i feel like at a certain point you just have to have a policy that says like they're not asking for new information they're asking for the same stuff again and again you know Make them get a lawyer, like make them get a FOIA lawyer and get them to come and tell you why you have to give this information over. Because if it's like a clear, like bad faith attempt, you don't have to feel bad about denying it. Sadie: [48:46] Yeah. Justin: [48:47] You know, if they're not like an investigative reporter, like why, why does, why does someone who's not even writing anything up need all this information for? I know that's not how the law works, but you can say this is a clear waste of our resources because no one's even using this information. Sadie: [49:05] Yeah. I don't know if it's possible, but being like, we have this many requests from this person, we're going to prioritize requests by time period. Jay: [49:16] You can only do so many requests per month. Sadie: [49:18] Or just being like, you've put in 30 requests this month. These other three people have put in two requests this month we're gonna do you know six requests for you and then focus on these other six requests before we come back to your you know torrential downpour of requests or whatever so like. Justin: [49:37] You're deprioritized and stuff you know yeah and i think all that stuff exists within the law so again over complying with laws especially when they're being abused yeah it's it reminds me there's this thing going around on blue sky someone said like Like all these terms have been searched in like UT Austin's website. Justin: [49:56] And because of SB 17, which I've been railing about, because that's the one that says like you can't have any kind of gay or trans or affinity group, ethnic group, racialized group stuff. And this is like the anti-DEI bill. And they were saying like, oh, they were searching this on their websites to remove it. And the thing is, there wasn't quite enough context. And I imagine what that list was, was someone in the IT department was asked to look for these terms. And then they were passing that along to say, make sure that if you have any leftover stuff on your website that is not in compliance with SB 17, that you go and check these things. It's not, wasn't saying like ban these terms. It was saying, go look at them and make sure they're still in compliance, which again, is still repressive, but it's not the same as like these terms are banned from the website. Although at my work we had a collection called like dei posters and then one of our liberal like someone i know is a liberal said why do we have dei we gotta change the name of it and i'm like one it's a research collection the law says research collections are not covered and i don't know what she was worried about like you're not gonna lose your job dude like one i maintain like i'm ultimately responsible for that collection it was directly you could like the buck stopped with me so I was like this isn't your problem. Justin: [51:17] But it was like, you know, just leave it. And like, why are you freaking out? And then we also had the whole thing with the pride display. We weren't allowed to do a pride display this year. Again, because of SB-17, I said, no one's compelled to go to the pride display. So it's not a DEI training. So it's not forced. There is no force. So SB-17 is not covered. That didn't work on the Dean. And the third incident was we got rid of our DEI budget allocation for purchasing DEIA. So we also can't collect for accessibility. So I said, hey, accessibility is legally protected still. Can we at least get the funding back for that? And then I got an email back that said, actually, we're just going to go back to area studies instead of DEI. So we're still going to collect all that stuff, but we're going to do it under area studies. It's like, okay, so yeah, like I'm glad that one, like I had, you know, an ally in the building, but it was very much like, you know, when you see your own supervisor, like rolling over and not going to do a pride display, it's like, what happens when the real shit happens? Like, what, like, are you going to stand up for me? No, you're not. Sadie: [52:27] Do not comply in advance. Jay: [52:30] Yeah. And it also reminded me, so because you are also of a public library, at least, but I guess you could do this at an academic institution, too. If you are a patron of the library that you also work at, you're allowed to do purchase suggestions. Sadie: [52:45] Right? Jay: [52:46] So even if you aren't in control of collection development or any, if you're not a selector or anything, you can still do purchase suggestions. And I know the public library I work at, those are almost always approved. I mean, granted, I, my library has money, not every public library has money, but like patron suggestions are like weighted so heavily because that shows that there is direct interest in something. And so I literally went to – I am on the inventory working group at the Lucy Parsons Center, and I was like, hey, what if all of us put library cards? We get 20 purchase suggestions every fucking month, each of us. All of the shit that we buy for the Lucy Parsons Center, why don't we also do purchase suggestions of those things at the BPL and the CPL, and then just start seeding the libraries with also the shit that we're selling here so that there's more copies. Of it and it's also changing the collection yep so like that's just like a thing that you could do by the way it's just like hey why don't you buy all this new shit that ak press put out it's super cool i'll read it me i will well. Sadie: [54:00] And and like let them turn you down. Jay: [54:03] Or you. Sadie: [54:04] Know if they go we can't get this we have to ill it you can go oh no never mind like you don't have to you're not strictly committed. So yeah, use that privilege. Justin: [54:14] Well, ILL stats are also used for future purchases because they demonstrate interest. Sadie: [54:19] Yeah. Jay: [54:20] Yeah. Sadie: [54:20] So... The other thing that I added in here is try your best to weaponize your patrons against bullshit. And what I mean by this isn't necessarily like being like, yeah, radicalized or whatever. Just if you have a pride display and somebody mentions how nice it was to see it, go, hey, can you put that in writing? Here's our comment form. Jay: [54:42] Yes. Sadie: [54:43] Like, oh, hey. Jay: [54:44] Save those emails. Sadie: [54:45] Yeah. Would you mind sending that as an email to our director or to whoever? Like when you get the things that make the library a good place when you see those things happening i know nobody likes to be bugged with a million links for feedback forms and shit but when they come up please just hey can you put in put in a comment about that hey can you can you email that to me hey if you don't want to put in a comment or email somebody can i email about it and not mention you by name because that shows interest. So you have people talking about DEI as bullshit when it comes up. Weaponize your patrons against the shit that's going to come down the pike against your library in particular. I know this episode is about what we can do outside of that, but you can also protect your own. So you can go. I had three patrons talk about how great it was to see the pride display this month you know kind of thing that's three more than you would have otherwise so this. Jay: [55:50] Might dox my workplace a little bit but whatever who fucking cares they're not listening, So, like, every single week, the library where I work has a little, like, weekly bulletin it sends out to all the employees, right? And in that is included, like, kudos and special thanks and everything from, like, patrons being, like, this specific librarian with a name helped me or et cetera. And one time was a picture because one of the branch libraries had a Margaret Killjoy event. And that library, like, an hour before that event was scheduled to go on, had an HVAC issue. And so had to close. And one of the librarians working there who was like, it's like a floater person who wasn't even like scheduled to work at that event or anything like helped move that entire event to a brand down the road in the same neighborhood. Jay: [56:41] And it's still in the event, like still went off and out hitch. And in the library staff weekly that went out was a picture of Margaret Killjoy, famous anarchist author, Margaret Killjoy, with some of my coworkers and someone from the Lucy Parsons Center being like, thank you, librarian with a name. It wasn't me, I promise. I was a person who attended this event because I was hype and I met Margaret Killjoy. It was very cool. but like margaret killjoy was in my staff newsletter with a picture of one of my lpc comrades being like thank you to this librarian who helped move this cool author talk that so many people attended that we had to keep getting more and more and more chairs for because like way too many people showed up to it like that was in my staff weekly like people pay attention to that shit and then like cool shit like cool anarchist authors show up in your staff email. Sadie: [57:39] Yeah so so like use that shit to the best of your ability you know. Jay: [57:44] You don't. Sadie: [57:44] Have to you don't have to be you know pushing politics you could you can do it non-partisan like. Jay: [57:51] Just you. Sadie: [57:52] Know don't do it about the person who asks why you don't have you know Dr. Oz's latest, whatever, you know, you can, you can still decide who you suggest to do what to just say it cough. Justin: [58:05] Yeah. You can play favorites. Jay: [58:07] And remember you're a patron at your library. Sadie: [58:10] Yes. Jay: [58:10] Where you work probably. Justin: [58:12] Yeah. I don't have any limits on how many books I can recommend. So I think anything I recommend gets purchased. Jay: [58:17] Yeah. The only time something I've recommended to get purchased was because it was a pre-order from like a weirdo. It was one of Eletron Frass's books that only like 150 are ever going to be printed ever and it was still in pre-order and the library was like we can't get this. Justin: [58:31] I also want to talk about like digital privacy you're probably as the next administration comes in going to hear a lot of people talking about different ways to stay safe, about 50 to 60% of it will be wrong information I think which is not a bad ratio honestly it's not all going to be bullshit, but people are going to tell you things to stay safe that like don't really matter and so you know listen to I'm not going to say listen to true crime but listen to like scam podcasts listen to like Lie, Cheat and Steel listen to some podcasts about like what happened with Mayor Adams like, Call people on the phone if you don't put stuff in writing, ever. Don't write it down. Call people on the phone. Easiest way to get around most surveillance is just to call someone on the phone. Jay: [59:22] There's still metadata, so they can, yeah. Sadie: [59:25] Don't use WhatsApp or FaceTime or any of that bullshit either. Use a fucking actual honest-to-God phone call. Because if you're going through some sort of app, that might be subject to disclosure for somebody else, too. Jay: [59:38] So just yeah i know on i know on iphone you can route your regular phone calls through signal i think you could do that with most with. Sadie: [59:49] Android too you can change the default. Jay: [59:51] Yeah yeah. Justin: [59:52] But doesn't doesn't signal have a backdoor for intelligence agencies. Jay: [59:56] No no i thought they were like. Sadie: [59:58] Fuck y'all we're moving to europe and we will pull we will pull our app if if. Jay: [1:00:03] That's something that's legally required of. Sadie: [1:00:05] Us i don't know if. Jay: [1:00:06] They can't later. Sadie: [1:00:07] But that was the last thing i heard. Jay: [1:00:09] And this is a rumor what's that go yeah yeah it's what it was probably also telegram it was telegram is what oh yeah it was telegram but this is also something that goes around about signal all the time and where they try to discourage people from using it because like well the cia got in that one time it's like because they were able to break into the person's phone and then they could get into like if people can get into your phone then get into your signal yeah that's why you should also like yeah but like end-to-end encryption is end-to-end encryption, and oh there's not a backdoor signal is open source you can see for yourself it does not have a backdoor okay. Justin: [1:00:45] So there is an eff site that came out called digital rights bytes and it's very like straightforward tech stuff i think i feel it's like very entry level so maybe that's a good place to start if you really don't know what's going on in the world but again you know when When it comes to. Jay: [1:01:03] Digital security, self-defense that they put out. Justin: [1:01:06] Yeah, there's lots of stuff out there. And I'm sure in the future, we might do more information on this kind of stuff. There's another episode kind of in planning about how to find information. I think we'll talk about privacy more then. But when it comes to like very, very basic privacy stuff, the kind of stuff that you can provide to your patrons, you know, just make sure it's coming from organizations that really actually care about privacy. Try not to spread things you just hear on social media because a lot of social media privacy advice is wrong. So just be careful with it. So I'll put the link to the digital rights bytes, which might be something that would be useful to share with patrons, or hopefully they have like a printable version of it, which would be nice. If not, I don't know, they did videos, but they got a little graphics. So maybe you could probably turn this into a zine. Hopefully it's openly licensed and people can recreate this. Anyway, and then the last thing I was saying, has been saying all through this is organize outside the library. You can bring outside groups into the library, make sure they know about the services that are available. But when it comes to the limitations of being in the library, The library can't necessarily become a solution for your community. It can't directly help people with their immigration problems. It can't shield people from the police. It can't shield. Jay: [1:02:30] People from- You are an agent of the state. You work for the state. Justin: [1:02:33] Yes. So you need to work outside the library. You need to get involved in your community. You need to find groups that, if nothing else, support them with your money. If you can't support them with your time, if you can't support them with either of those things, support them in some other way. Just find something you can do. again use your employer's resources you know you've got rooms you've got printers you've got stuff steal pencils and give it to the people like i you know do do whatever whatever you can do but ultimately i think the organizing has to happen outside of the library organizing within the library and the library profession is just simply not going to rise to the task of what we need right now for. Jay: [1:03:13] The love of get into printmaking i did it's real fun you can make propaganda real easy. Sadie: [1:03:18] There you go. For the love of God, even if nothing else, get involved with your union if you're part of one. You do not believe how many people don't even think to show up to a single meeting or respond to a single email survey. Jay: [1:03:31] Remember, you are your union. Sadie: [1:03:34] You are your union. Jay: [1:03:35] They are not a nebulous third party. That is propaganda. You are your union. Justin: [1:03:40] And if you don't feel represented by your union, make a change. Jay: [1:03:44] Do a rank and file caucus. Justin: [1:03:47] Okay, so I just updated to the beta iOS, and it's now like goth mode. It's kind of cool. Jay: [1:03:52] Oh, yeah, where it automatically changes all of the icons. Justin: [1:03:57] To like dark mode? Jay: [1:03:58] Yeah. Justin: [1:03:59] Yeah, that's sick. Yeah, so remember, update your phones to keep them harder to crack. Jay: [1:04:05] Update your phones to enter goth mode. Justin: [1:04:07] It's pretty sick. All right, Discord link is in the notes, so come hang out with us. I've been doing YouTube slot parties. they're very fun but we need more people to show up because it's it's only fun in a group so if you want to see rednecks doing tractor pulls or backyard wrestling between 12 year olds or, or juggalos or i don't know what else i found training videos training videos how not to get your wallet stolen in the 1950s all kinds of good stuff so chugging videos gross stuff the dude who smokes way too much weed at a type and then starts melting. I love him. He's so dumb. Yeah, so come have fun with us. Good night!