Untitled
unknown
plain_text
2 months ago
8.5 kB
47
Indexable
This matchup, as far as I'm concerned, comes down to answering 2 big questions: a) Can Tariq succesfully sneak past TBG to snipe his VIP? b) If the answer to the first question is no, which character wins a fight? To start with a), which seems to be the one both debaters spend the most time focusing on, my thoughts after reading both rounds + the OOT are the following: 1.- TBG's travel speed is indeed fast. The missile he catches up to is visibly moving at speeds relevant to the argument Mik is making, and so is the train. That he might not always move at these speeds is not enough for me to discard the feats. - I do, however, agree with Star about the explosion feat not being real, as well as TBG likely needing some time to accelerate - Even if I bought Star's argued "90 seconds to cross the map" timeframe, I don't think this matters much, because I don't think Tariq can get very far in the same time, and Cordelia even less so. It seems pretty obvious to me that if TBG can find Tariq, he is also capable of forcing a fight 2.- Tariq's "senses" and luck largely work as Star claims. A lot of the scans Mik calls vague simply aren't. Tariq is indeed turning an improbable event into a certainty. The imprecisions are blatantly because of the Dead King's rituals and not a flaw of the power. Tariq is still not the Adjutant no matter how many times this is used as evidence for something. - Mik still does have some valid points here, mainly regarding the speed in which this information is given (which Star even sort of concedes in the OOT defense by arguing these are of limited utility in the middle of a fight), but I don't think this is a crippling flaw to the argument Star is making. The combatants spawn a mile-ish away, and there is plenty of evidence this power is useful for both locating Tariq's opponents and avoiding detection, which seem to be the main things it's being argued for - The mind reading probably works despite the helmet. Mind control =/= mind reading in my eyes 3.- TBG's scanners do go through metal (he's clearly seeing some structural parts that are not behind windows), but he does require to zoom in to pick up on human sized targets and won't instantly find Tariq in such a large arena - None of the other sensory feats Mik brings up seem aplicable in a way that matters to this match, and a bunch of them are almost antifeats to the interpretation of "TBG instantly finds 2 people a mile away and rushes towards them" - I don't think this being an activated ability matters at all 4.- "Tariq doing 1.000 things at once" argument doesn't land. It might be true Star is arguing him to act in a hyper-optimal tournament oriented way, but it is also equally true he has a convincingly effective divine force guiding his actions, which is enough for me to believe he will act as presented. The argument about him not being "the tip of the spear" is more convincing, especially since Star doesn't link any evidence when refuting it (I have no idea why this limitation only applies when he's part of a band of heroes and facing an opponent with fate manipulation), however, I'm not sure if it matters. Tariq still sneaks around to murder people, and he still attacks with light beams without warning, so this clearly doesn't forbid him from doing so. Regardless, lets ignore a) for a moment to answer b) (who wins a direct confrontation?) before we jump to conclusions: 1.- I don’t think the miracles are much of a threat to TBG. Mik already points out these being blatantly slow to setup, and Star pretty much guts them in her OOT defense by conceding anyone moderately capable of evasive action is not under much threat by these (which Mik also adequately proves TBG is in round) - The idea of the shields being able to box TBG is also unconvincing, if Baymax is strong enough to just break these by hitting them, it seems clear to me TBG also should be, just based of the feats posted in round (none of which were used to argue strength, but even then) 2.- Similarly, TBG’s guns are not much of a threat to Tariq or Cordelia. The damage they do to the stone monsters is honestly not particularly impressive, so I believe the shields should be more than enough to protect both of them - The trebuchets are stronger than real trebuchets and even if they weren’t pulverizing the stones without the shield taking damage would still sell me on them being an adequate counter - Tariq can most likely still cast while having a shield up 3.- The missiles are not “fast”, and Tariq can likely snipe them or clear them with waves of light. There are way too many scans of them flying in some looney tunes pattern where they loop in circles before missing their target or hitting another missile for me to believe they are a good tool in this fight. The fact that we see Rusty easily dodge them, when Mik directly argues TBG to be much faster than rusty is also like, not a good thing to argue for if you want the missiles to be fast. 4.- The street destroying explosion is easily the best tool in TBG’s arsenal and can likely threaten Tariq or his VIP through the shields, especially given the limitations conceded in the OOT defense. Star kind of wants to have her cake and eat it too when arguing the Summer Sun produces physical force but also that the miracle is only useful against heat attacks, and it doesn’t work. 5.- Tariq’s normal beams are fast/precise enough to hit TBG, and they outrange any tool in his arsenal. If they can hurt him is harder to answer: - I do believe enough force to send someone through 2 houses and a statue is also sending TBG a good distance away, at the very least - The saint of swords is more resistant to heat than TBG is, but she is also not like, incinerated by the beams, just hurt. The matter erasure does not matter to this argument. The scan of the beams incinerating armor Mik brings up is better than he gives it credit for - The laser TBG tanks is weird. It clearly has a “force” component beyond heat, and it’s cutting Rusty’s arm at the joints, so idk. It might be real, but I’m not 100% convinced - Overall I believe these attacks won’t oneshot TBG, but I don’t think he’s no-selling them indefinitely either So what does this mean when it comes to finding the answer to both questions? To be honest, I’m leaning towards Star here, mainly due the stealth angle. While I do think she overplays her hand a bit when it comes to criticizing some of TBG’s feats, I do ultimately agree his sensors aren’t the “instantly scan the whole map at once button” Mik argues them to be, but rather something that will let him cover small chunks of the arena. While this normally wouldn’t be nearly enough for me to believe 2 human speed targets will be able to sneak past TBG and snipe his VIP, the addition of heroic luck to the equation, as well as divine guidance nudging Tariq towards the places TBG won’t look at first makes the whole argument far more convincing as a whole. I do not think this is a given, as the speed Tariq moves at is still a relevant limitation, but successfully pulling this off doesn’t seem to be something that is outside the scope of his powers, but rather, the exact kind of thing they let him get away with. Even if this weren’t the case, I’m still pretty 50/50 on TBG being able to win a fight with Tariq. I do think the street destroying explosion is a better wincon in a direct engagement than any Tariq has, but idk if he’ll necessarily open with that or if it has relevant range, and the beams Tariq fires likely have enough sheer concussive force to push TBG away and keep him from getting a direct hit off. If the fight comes down to a melee TBG can easily smash the shields and oneshot Tariq or his VIP though. Because of all of this, I’m giving this one to Tariq. Star puts on a convincing argument his stealth is more likely than not to work in this round, and with Stark being completely undefended, this is all he needs to win. The fact that he retains an at least reasonable chance to beat TBG in a direct fight further cements this conclusion. This doesn’t mean I think it’s impossible for TBG to win, as he does hold some very relevant advantages in raw stats and mobility, but I do ultimately think he has less room for error here, as he essentially has to pass 2 checks, both of which I’m fairly split on. Overall very good round to you 2 and good luck to whoever moves on.
Editor is loading...
Leave a Comment